COURT FACILITIES AND COUNTY SPACE NEEDS COMMITTEE

April 1, 2009

 

** NOT APPROVED **


Committee Members Present

D. Pullen, D. Fanton, W. Hall, T. Hopkins, T. O’Grady, C. Crandall

(Absent:  G. Benson)

 

Others Present

D. Burdick, W. Dibble, J. Foels, L. Haggstrom, K. Kruger, J. Luckey, J. Margeson, T. Parker, B. Reynolds, B. Riehle, K. Toot, N. Ungermann

 

Special Guests

Belmont Betterment Association – President Raymond DeTine, Greg Shelley, Margaret McNinch, Wendy Skinner

Camelot Choraleers – Greg Shelley, Deborah Hunter, Meredith Chilson

James Charrette, Allan Automatic Sprinkler Corporation, CA

Joy M. Carlson, RA, Professor at the Alfred State SUNY College of Technology Computer Imaging & Architectural Engineering Tech Dept and the following students – David Tice, Stefanie Cook, Kyle Drummer, Matt Buckman, Lucia Aparicio, Luissanna Cepeda, Alex Cohen, Marc-Anthony Forgenie

Lisa Lee, Literacy West NY, Inc. Executive Director

 

Media Present

B. Quinn, Wellsville Daily Reporter

 

             Court Facilities and County Space Needs Committee Chairman David Pullen called the meeting to order at 3:42 p.m. 

 

Approval of Minutes

            The minutes of the February 4, 2009 meeting were approved following a motion made by Legislator Hopkins, seconded by Legislator Fanton and carried.

 

            The minutes of the March 18, 2009 meeting were approved following a motion made by Legislator O’Grady, seconded by Legislator Hopkins and carried.

 

 

Legislator Pullen stated that the primary topic on the agenda today is to consider any expressions of interest that the Belmont Betterment Association (BBA) would have in making a proposal to the Allegany County Board of Legislators relative to the Belmont School.  Legislator Pullen turned the meeting over to Raymond DeTine, President of the Belmont Betterment Association. 

 

Belmont Betterment Association

            Mr. DeTine apologized about the miscommunications regarding the County’s request for proposals last year.  Mr. DeTine explained that they had retained CRBE to take care of these types of things, and they mishandled the request and did not properly follow through.  Mr. DeTine indicated that he was very sorry and hopes that the County doesn’t hold it against them.  Since that time, CRBE has been let go.

 

            Mr. DeTine provided a brief overview of the repairs that have been made to the building since the Belmont Betterment Association has taken over which included roof replacement, partial mold and asbestos remediation, securing of building, repair and/or replacement of locks and windows, heating and water delivery systems were evaluated, and estimates for bringing building into ADA compliance were obtained.  Mr. DeTine indicated that plans have been made for further mold remediation, and any asbestos remaining in the building has been encapsulated in concrete or is in the form of either floor or ceiling tiles.  The plaster was tested for asbestos, and it was found to be clean.  All debris has been removed, and all of the old carpets have been torn up and removed which really helped with the mold issues.  The grounds have been maintained the last few years.  Mr. DeTine thanked the County for the assistance that JobTrak has been able to provide in the clean up of the building.  Mr. DeTine stated that they have a very good understanding of what the building needs and how much it will cost; there are no surprises.  The parking lot across the street from the school is now owned by Steuben Trust, and the Belmont Betterment Association is in the process of securing the parking lot. 

 

            Mr. DeTine stated that they believe that they have a very marketable piece of property. The Belmont Betterment Association has been actively pursuing other entities to occupy the building, and there has been some interest.  Their desire today is to show the Court Facilities and County Space Needs Committee that the building could house some County departments, and they would be willing to work with us to accomplish that. 

 

            They are currently working with Literacy West who has written a grant to occupy about 14,000 square feet in the building, and if they obtain the grant, they will be moving in and other agencies may be coming with them.  They are hoping to see a building with a single point of access for services that Allegany County residents need. 

 

 

Alfred State College Adaptive Reuse Renditions

 

            Mr. DeTine introduced Joy Carlson, Professor of Alfred State College’s Computer Imaging & Architectural Engineering Tech Department.  Ms. Carlson briefly explained her experience and credentials. Ms. Carlson talked about the need to renovate more old buildings in the United States.  Ms. Carlson brought several students with her who have been through the Belmont School three times, and they made the following historic preservation and adaptive reuse renditions so that committee members could see different possibilities that could be available in the old school:

 

            David Tice indicated that the removal of the old lockers left an eight (8) inch to one (1) foot gap in the walls, and Mr. Tice presented an art display proposal to replace where the old lockers were removed.  The proposal featured glass shelving and painting display placed in front of a rock façade with recessed lighting.  This could be done in any hallway where lockers were removed, and it creates a perfect place to display art work.

 

            Stefanie Cook designed the current cafeteria into a Bistro.  Ms. Cook indicated that she wanted to make the environment a very warm and inviting place, and she briefly explained how she accomplished this by varying ceiling heights and lights.  Professor Carlson also talked about how the existing windows were used to create certain effects. 

 

            Kyle Drummer created a conference room to fit into an old classroom which was approximately 22 feet by 48 feet.  He presented three renditions showing a conventional conference room and two modular type rooms.

 

            Matt Buckman presented samples of executive offices that could attach to a conference room.  Mr. Buckman presented two different layouts to show how different needs could be addressed. 

 

            Lucia Aparicio presented two different proposals showing how classrooms could be created into office space.  The particular classroom was divided into three offices each 14 X 9 feet.

 

            Luissanna Cepeda showed how a classroom can be changed into a bookstore with two different options for shelving layout.  Mr. DeTine indicated that if Literacy West comes in, they plan to have a bookstore staffed by volunteers. 

 

            Alex Cohen presented a cubicle layout for two different rooms.  Mr. Cohen showed how different cubicle styles can be used to maximize the space available.  These particular rooms face the courtyard.

 

            Marc-Anthony Forgenie presented two different proposals to change existing classrooms into modern office space as well as a reception area or lobby space. 

 

            Committee members complimented the fine job that the students did. 

 

Legislator Theodore Hopkins mentioned the heating in most schools is found along the windows, and he wondered how that was being dealt with when the rooms are split up.  James Charrett indicated that they plan to take out the single master heating unit and break it up into three individual units with thermostats at each one.  Each room would have its own hot water radiator. 

 

 

Belmont Betterment Association’s Lease Proposal

 

            Mr. DeTine introduced James Charrette, Vice President of Allan Automatic Sprinkler Corporation out of California.  Mr. DeTine indicated that Mr. Charrette is very familiar with the construction trade, and he has made an excellent partner with the Belmont Betterment Association.  Mr. DeTine indicated that he felt it was important that the County see that they had someone with the financial wherewithal to see the project through. 

 

Mr. Charrette stated that he shares the Belmont Betterment Associations’ vision for the school, and it is a tremendous asset that the community should take advantage of.  Mr. Charrette indicated that we need to look at the building for what it can be made into. 


            Mr. Charrette stated that to estimate a cost for the County, he took an 8,000 square foot footprint of offices and incorporated some community common space and combined that with some utility costs.  Because it is a common hot water system, they cannot divide off electricity, heating, and plumbing.  Mr. Charrette indicated that he approached this as a gross lease arrangement where the figures are inclusive of the utility usage and common space in the building and came up with the following rates:

 

Lease             Office             Common                    

Year                Space                 Area               Utilities                    Total

 

1 – 5                $8/sq. ft.          $1.20/sq. ft.       $1.55/sq. ft.              $10.75/sq. ft.

 

6 – 10              $1/sq. ft.          $1.40/sq. ft.        $2.00/sq. ft.              $13.40/sq. ft.

  

Mr. Charrette stated that the figures listed are tentative estimates, noting that it can be very difficult to predict what utility costs will be five years down the road.  Mr. Charrette indicated that the utility costs per square foot would go down as more tenants lease space.  He believes that the increases reflected in lease years six through ten represent a reasonable estimate of what increased costs will look like.  These figures do not include build-out costs, and Mr. Charrette suggested looking at costs for renovating the space needed in one of two ways:

 

1.      The Office for the Aging would hire contractors and make the renovations themselves.  Mr. Charrette stated he did not know if that had been estimated or approached from a budgeting standpoint for the other opportunities that we have.

2.      The other option would be to work with a contractor to get a dollar amount for the build out, and then pro-rate that into a lease over ten years.  Mr. Charrette estimates that the renovation costs would be approximately $120,000, about $100 per square foot, or around 12 percent for an amortized cost of build out. 

 

Mr. Charrette indicated that they would be willing to contribute public access and public divisions as necessary to accommodate the tenant space, and they would not be looking to amortize the public spaces.   Mr. Charrette asked how interested the Office for the Aging would be in using the gym facility.  The gym facility is a state-of-the-art 14,000 square foot facility with about 4,000 square feet of locker rooms.  It could be rented for about $200/day for an event, or we could factor in $1/square foot ($8,000/year) of our leased space to have access for the whole year.  If we would have less than $8,000 worth of activities then the County would probably want to look at renting the facility on an as needed basis.  Mr. VanTine indicated that some community leagues have expressed interest in using the gym, and if someone was leasing the building for an entire year, they could in turn rent it out to other entities.  Mr. Charrette noted that there are more amenities available at the school than any other facility around. 

 

Mr. Charrette indicated that they have performed all the basic infrastructure analysis so they have a very good handle on what it would take to get the building up and running.  Mr. Charrette estimates that it would take four to six weeks to get through a layout – an architect would need to be hired to get floor plans, configurations, etc.  Mr. Charrette is very optimistic that 8,000 square feet can be built out in three to four months. 

 

The lease prices above do not include the build out costs; however, they do include cleaning, maintenance, snow plowing, mowing, etc. 

 

Legislator Pullen requested clarification on the common area or community space.  Mr. Charrette indicated that connecting corridors and foyers are considered common areas.   Legislator Karl Kruger asked if an increase or decrease in space would affect the lease price, and Mr. Charrette indicated that they would be willing to discuss that.

 

Mr. Charrette indicated that they believe they need to have commitments for 10,000 square feet of leased space to make it worthwhile to open the doors.  When the space required drops below 10,000 square feet, the practicality of moving forward is borderline. 

 

Legislator Dwight Fanton asked if they planned to install a sprinkler system in the building, noting that he does not know if we can put our people in there without one.  They indicated that they did not plan to install a sprinkler system, and although any new construction would require a sprinkler system, old space does not. 

 

            Chairman Curtis Crandall stated that the County spent approximately $30,000 to have an engineering group look at the old school building in November 2003 to determine how appropriate the space would be for County usage.  The MRB Group did a study, and their report included the following comments regarding the 1990 addition on the school:

 

            1990 Addition – Repairs Needed:

 

·         Repair roof leaks

·         Replace insulation where roof leaked

·         Replace exterior doors and hardware

·         Remove existing shower rooms and locker rooms

·         Modify bathrooms for handicapped accessibility

·         Replace delaminated tiles in bathrooms

·         Replace damaged ceilings

·         Patch and repair floor tiles, carpet office areas

·         Few, if any, plumbing fixtures meet ADA and ANSI A117.1 requirements

·         Windows are in good condition; however, the caulking around some of the window units is due to be repaired or replaced.

 

1990 Addition – Recommendations to create a County Office Space:

 

·         At a minimum, at least one new elevator should be provided.  Provide a new handicapped elevator including enclosure, machine room, equipment, power, etc.

·         There is no automatic sprinkler protection in any part of the building.  Adding sprinklers to part of the building would require a new water service dedicated to fire protection.

·         Existing lighting system is marginally adequate for office use.  Replace the luminaries with more efficient lamp/ballast combinations.  Office and Program areas:  50 foot-candles.  Corridors:  20 foot-candles.

·         Partitions for supervisors; offices, conference rooms, supply rooms, interview rooms.

·         Replace HVAC but salvage hot water boilers in the second floor mechanical room.

·         Electric system – The existing electrical service to the building is adequate for an educational type use but is not adequate to support office type occupancy. 

·         There are no means for automatic lighting control as required by the NY State Energy Code.

·         Renovation or occupation of the existing building would constitute both a Change of Occupancy and Reconstruction under Appendix K of the NYS Building code.  The code will require the electrical, structural, access and life/fire safety systems to comply with current code requirements.

  

Chairman Crandall asked if all of these items would be included, or if they would need to be addressed as part of the build-out process.  Mr. Charrette stated that many of the things listed are recommendations rather than requirements.  Mr. Crandall commented that he assumes that many of the ADA requirements would be included in the leased space; however, if the County desired to have specific lighting in certain areas above what is already provided, that would be part of the build-out.  Mr. Charrette indicated that the current heating system could be retrofitted for approximately $238,000 so that air conditioning would be available in the building; however, it has not been configured for the 8,000 square feet.  Mr. DeTine stated that they have had engineers go through the building as well, and they know if they were to bring the entire building up to code and meet all of the needs of both sides, they would be looking at $3.1 million.   Mr. DeTine indicated that they do not need to address the other, older side of the building until it is needed.  A recent electrical inspection passed with flying colors, and they should be able to support offices with it.    Mr. Charrette also commented that the MRB study addressed new build-out that we do not have. 

 

            Legislator David Pullen stated that the current Office for the Aging facility is not adequate, and the Board needs to make a decision and move forward.  Legislator Pullen asked if the code has been addressed for what we need for a change of use, and Mr. DeTine indicated that an inspection was done Saturday, and he should have a report on that by the end of the week.  Legislator Pullen expressed concern about asbestos contamination and asked if the building has been tested and inspected by an asbestos contractor.  Mr. DeTine stated that the school board at the time indicated that this issue has been addressed.  Legislator Pullen stated that he received correspondence indicating that the asbestos certification requires a new inspection every three years to remain valid.  If the building was not maintained, and the containment steps were not maintained, then the previous certifications would not be valid.  Mr. DeTine indicated that his understanding was that anything that was not removed was encased in concrete, but he would be happy to look into this matter further with Legislator Pullen.  The risk for asbestos is so significant and so severe that we need to make sure things are in order.  Mr. Pullen distributed the following summary of issues and concerns some of which have already been addressed:

 

1.      Cost Issues and Concerns:

                  A.  What will be the cost per square foot?

B.  What is included in that cost?

C.  Does your price include utilities?

D.  Does your price include cleaning and maintenance costs?

E.  Does your price include snow removal and grounds maintenance?

F. Does your price include the use of common areas such as foyers, hallways, elevators, and bathroom/restroom areas?

G.     Does your price include the use of parking areas?  I heard that the parking lot is owned by Steuben Trust Company, not by BBA.  Is that correct?  Does BBA have any type of agreement with Steuben Trust for ongoing use of the parking area?

H.     What areas do you propose for the use of Office for the Aging, NY Connects, and Veterans’ Services?  How many square feet of space will be included?  Are those rooms already suitable for immediate use by those agencies?

I.  Who is going to be responsible for renovation of those areas for use by the County agencies?  Are those costs included in the square foot price that is being discussed?

J.  What conditions and/or costs would be involved in use of the gymnasium?  Is that an extra charge?  What would the terms be?  Is the gymnasium ready to be used at present? 

K. Will the rent payment include water and sewer service charges for those services?  If not, how will they be determined and assessed?

L. Does BBA have any estimates for renovation costs that are necessary and planned? 

M. Does BBA have any reserves to cover maintenance, operations, and services for the building?  Can BBA obtain and provide a bond to protect Allegany County if we were to locate in these facilities?  Would BBA be willing to give such a bond?

N.  How long a lease would BBA be able to give the County?  Would it lock in prices for an extended period of time? 

 

 

2.  Safety Issues and Concerns:

                 A.      Has the building been inspected and tested for asbestos?  Can you provide the County with a report from a certified asbestos inspector certifying that the building  

                        has no asbestos contamination?

B.     Is the building up to code for use as an office building?  Has this been checked out with the local or state building inspector?  What will be involved in adapting the former school for use as an office building? 

C.  Is the electrical system adequate for use as an office building facility?  How many electrical, telephone, computer network and internet connections are available in each room?  Who is responsible for providing those facilities?

 

3.  Use and Operation Issues and Concerns:

                 A. How is the heating system set up?  Can the area proposed for OFA and Veterans’ Services be heated separately from the rest of the building?  What type of heating

                     system is in the building?

B.  Is the building insulated to reduce utility consumption?

C. Is the building air-conditioned?  Is it capable of being adapted for air-conditioning?  What would that involve?  Who would be responsible for doing that?

D. What security measures will be present in the building?  Will there be any watchmen or other security services?  How will the areas used by County agencies be protected from other tenants or persons gaining access to the facility?

E. Will there be ongoing construction at the former school facility?  What is planned?  What adjustments and protections can be afforded to County workers, guests and others using the facility during times of construction and/or renovation?

F. Who are the other potential tenants who will be in the building?  Will BBA give Allegany County any right of approval for such other tenants?  What do we do if the other tenants are unacceptable as neighbors for the County agencies?

 

4.      What are the plans and current status for the rest of the building?  Has the condition of the building been stabilized and secured?

 

5.      How soon could BBA be ready to make space available for use by County agencies?

 

6.       Has the building been inspected by an architect or engineer?  What have they reported?

 

7.      Does the building need to be modified to bring it up to current code requirements?

 

Bathrooms were discussed and Mr. Charrette indicated that they would not be counted as part of the 8,000 square feet of leased space.  The County would have a dedicated area with a separate entrance with security.  Mr. DeTine stated that the hallways could be laid out based on the County’s needs.  They talked about using the cul-de-sac for handicapped parking.   Legislator Theodore Hopkins asked if the tenants will be able to control what other tenants come into the building, and Mr. DeTine stated that their goal is to have a synergy between the people in the building.  The building was re-zoned a few years ago as a business and light industry. 

 

 

Literacy West NY, Inc.

             Literacy West NY, Inc. Executive Director Lisa Lee stated that she submitted a grant to the New York State Department of Education for $200,000 for three years to create a cooperative learning center with the vision of taking over 12,000 to 14,000 square feet of space in the school.  They hope to hear something in May.  In addition to that Ms. Lee stated that she has been working with Mr. DeTine and Mrs. Skinner, and they are in the process of applying for a Restore New York grant for $2.1 million for the renovation of the old school and the final restoration of the Belmont Hotel.  Ms. Lee explained that it is a capital grant project offer through the Empire Statement Development Office.  If the grant is awarded, it will help considerably with some of these infrastructure costs, and a lot of the County’s concerns regarding codes and ADA compliance will be addressed.  The application is due May 4, and Chairman Crandall indicated that the County would be happy to send a letter of support.  Ms. Lee will forward additional information to the Clerk of the Board Brenda Rigby Riehle.  Ms. Lee indicated that they are 100 percent grant funded.

 

Next Step

             Legislator Pullen stated that the Committee and the Board need to move forward.  Legislator Pullen stated that the Belmont Betterment Association is proposing a lease for approximately 8,000 square feet at a cost of $10.75/square foot.  Legislator Pullen noted that we do not have a floor plan, and we do not know whether we will end up with more or less than 8,000 square feet.  The square foot price from the Industrial Development Agency (IDA) at the Crossroads Area is $12/square foot for new construction.  The figures are currently $1.25 apart; however, you still need to add an amortized cost of approximately $1/square foot for the build-out costs associated with the Belmont Betterment Association’s lease.  It was noted that the $1/square foot for build-out costs is not a firm figure. 

 

            Legislator Karl Kruger commented that we are not really comparing apples to apples, and that the new construction at the Crossroads cannot be compared to the materials that the school is made of.  No one could afford to build that type of building today.  Legislator Kruger stated that the prospect of having municipal sewer and water at the school would help us avoid the problems we may face when we need to add these systems at Crossroads.  In addition, there is the potential to expand at the Belmont School; whereas, the Crossroads does not offer that potential.  Mr. DeTine briefly updated the committee on the water service that was expanded three years ago as well as their plans to build a new sewer plant. 

 

            Mr. Charrette stated that they are trying to get the first brick laid for an organization that will create some real vitality for the Village of Belmont.  This proposal not only provides that, but it provides expandability and will hopefully attract other similar agencies to the school.  You may not see this type of benefit out at the Crossroads.  Legislator Kruger also mentioned that the state is really pushing single point of entry, and he is concerned how long it will be before it is mandated.  What would we do out at Crossroads when there isn’t enough room for everyone that needs to be together; we would have that option at the school.  Legislator Pullen briefly addressed Legislator Kruger’s concerns regarding the single point of entry issue.   

 

            Legislator Pullen thanked the Belmont Betterment Association for attending the meeting.  Legislator Pullen stated that the possibilities are intriguing, and what the BBA and the college students have done is captivating; however, he does not believe that it meets the County’s needs at this time.  Legislator Pullen does not believe there is enough information to move forward with the BBA’s proposal.  Legislator Pullen stated that the construction season is upon us, and he believes that we need to be moving forward.  If the final conclusion is to go with the Crossroads proposal, the time to be doing that is the summer months not later in the year.  Legislator Fanton stated that there are still a lot of questions that need to be answered – asbestos, fire protection, etc., and it can’t all be crammed into a few weeks.  A lot of homework needs to be done.  Legislator Timothy O’Grady stated that he would like to explore the BBA proposal further.  Mr. O’Grady asserted that he just doesn’t believe we can afford $100,000 per year, and he believes the issue warrants further investigation.  Although the Belmont Betterment Association’s proposal is also for over $100,000/year, Legislator O’Grady believes there are additional options that may result in cost savings.  Legislator Fanton expressed concern that the Belmont Betterment Association has known about the County’s desire to secure space for almost a year, and many issues still have not been dealt with.  Legislator Fanton asserted that the proposal from the Belmont Betterment Association will cost as much or more than the proposal for Crossroads.  Legislator Pullen stated that we’ve looked at opportunities and looked at different properties that haven’t worked.   Legislator O’Grady made a motion that the County investigate further the concerns that need to be addressed by the BBA and possibly using the school for potential office space.  The motion failed for lack of a second. It was noted that there would be no cost to the County to get answers to our questions; however, timing is an issue. 

 

            Chairman Crandall thanked everyone for attending the meeting and for the input.  Chairman Crandall appreciates the interest they have in the school, and he is 100 percent in favor of anything that can happen with the school.  The Chairman stated that he personally supports the Office for the Aging Program and what has been outlined and the contract that is on the floor, but he hopes it doesn’t reflect or diminish the desire to see things happen at the school.  Chairman Crandall thanked everyone for their efforts.  Mr. DeTine indicated that he appreciated the opportunity to talk to us.

 

            Legislator Fanton stated that he respects what the Belmont Betterment Association has done, but he cannot support Office for the Aging going over there at this time.  Legislator Fanton briefly talked about his concerns with asbestos liability.

 

Adjournment 

The meeting was adjourned following a motion made by Legislator Hopkins, seconded by Legislator Fanton and carried.

 

 

Respectfully submitted by

Brenda Rigby Riehle, Clerk of the Board